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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Wed Apr  4 15:17:23 2001
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From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Subject: [TML] archive test, ignore
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 15:15:30 -0700
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test2
----
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
----
Tod Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.travellerguns.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>test2</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>----<BR>When the pin is pulled, Mr. =
Grenade is not=20
our friend.<BR>----<BR>Tod Glenn<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:webmaster@travellercentral.com">webmaster@travellercentral=
.com</A><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.travellercentral.com">http://www.travellercentral.com<=
/A><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.travellerguns.com">http://www.travellerguns.com</A><BR=
><A=20
href=3D"http://www.spinwardmarches.com">http://www.spinwardmarches.com</A=
><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.solsec.org">http://www.solsec.org</A></FONT></DIV></BO=
DY></HTML>

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Wed Apr  4 15:52:09 2001
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From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
To: galactic@yahoogroups.com, tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Re: FW: [galactic] [email-list] Please Spread the Word - New TML
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 18:44:18 -0400
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On Wed, 4 Apr 2001 11:35:51 -0500 , Loren wrote:

>> Here's the question we should be discussing:
 
>> Does everybody really want to bail on the IENT TML
>> and go to Tod Glenn's incarnation thereof?
 
>> I think we should be talking about _this_ question, not 
>> spreading rumors about "the apparent demise of the
>> Traveller Mailing List hosted at IENT."
>> If we vote to go to Tod's TML, so be it, but we should
>> do it rationally and consciously, not just reacting to
>> something that hasn't actually happened.
 
To which David replied:

>Now that I have some facts, I agree with your assessment.
>I've been a member of the TML for quite a few years now
>and understand the desire to ensure its continued existence.

{I have snipped for bandwidth, not for relevance.}

OK: Here's my take - and apparently that of others - on this situation.

I DID NOT AND DO NOT WANT TO "BAIL" FROM IENT.  IT IS [WAS?] A GOOD LIST.

HOWEVER:

>From my point of view - and apparently from Tod's and others - the list
went down with no notice a week ago.  I have been unable to find out what's
been happening, and when I've tried to post, I've gotten bounces -
apparently, there's a misconfiguration somewhere, and it won't accept
messages from me, and it hasn't been sending messages to me.  This message
[from the GALACTIC list] - apparently from an ongoing dialogue that started
elsewhere - is the _first_ that I am hearing about this.  I am crossing
this to Tod's TML to try to get the word out - something that someone else
apparently failed to do.

With no information, and with a _rumor_ that IENT did some large layoffs
around the same time, and with _dead_silence_ subsequently, my thought, and
Tod's, was to try to keep the community together.  This message is the
first that I am hearing that IENT is doing any sort of upgrade, or that the
list _isn't_ dead.

Allow me to ask: When faced with a situation like that, what am I to
assume?

I Repeat: MY INTENT - AND TOD'S - WAS TO DO WHAT COULD BE DONE TO PRESERVE
THE COMMUNITY, NOT TO ABANDON ANY SERVICE THAT HAS SERVED US WELL.  We did
so in the face of no apparent action or communication on the topic from any
other source, after nearly a week of absolute silence on the topic.  When I
visited #traveller on undernet last night [Tuesday], nobody was there who
knew any more than I did.  Nothing came through on any of the other
Traveller-related mailing lists I subscribe to - and there are over 100
people on the Traveller-Culture list who, if they knew, _could_ have
mentioned it.  

I am glad to hear that the IENT outage is not permanent.  I would be even
happier if I had gotten some warning in advance, or some communication via
_any_ channel subsequently. I would still appreciate more complete
information on the topic.
--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
(ILink: news without the abuse. Ask via email.)
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Wed Apr  4 16:00:12 2001
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Hi all!

It seems like we've moved to this address permanently...?  It makes
sense to me -- if ient wasn't really connected with the list, it seems
to me that we should neither burden them with nor grant the
responsibility for the list.  
 
Anyway...  One annoying little comment I'd like to make: could people
please refrain from using HTML posting on the new list?  My mail reader
(and others'?) don't read HTML very well.  Also, HTML posts inevitably
take a lot more space than plain .txt ones.

Thanks if you agree, sorry for wasting your bandwidth if you don't.

-- Rachel
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Wed Apr  4 16:13:11 2001
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From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
To: tml@travellercentral.com, traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: [TML] Phoenix from the ashes
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 19:07:35 -0400
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Immediately after I get out the word that Tod Glenn has created a list at
travellercentral.com, I find I'm once again receiving messages from the
IENT list.  I'm very happy about this - IENT has served us well, and I
believe in loyalty.

BUT: I also believe in keeping a community together.  In the case of an
e-community, that means that communication needs to be re-established when
it breaks down.  This did not happen during the just-ended week-long outage
of the TML.

I've gotten mail from other sources that indicate that this was due to
either a move or an upgrade at IENT.  There even seems to have been talk of
there having been an announcement that it _would_ be going down having been
sent out beforehand.

The sources discussing the issue seem to have been forwarded to lists I
subscribe to in response to my post announcing Tod's list.

The last messages I got from the TML before it went down was Digest
#1999.3830, on March 28, which said nothing about any impending downtime.
Nor had anything been said prior to that.  The first digest I got today
(4/4) was #1999.3831 - and there appears to have been some activity in
between those two digests which was lost to me - and to how many other
subscribers?

It seems that Rob Miracle, who was the maintainer of the List, no longer
works for IENT.  I don't seem to recall hearing this until shadowcat told
me last night [Tues] in IRC when I went to get the word out there about
Tod's list.

Nobody that I am aware of wanted to abandon or bail from the IENT list -
yet I find that that is the assumption that has been made in response to my
posting announcing Tod's list - simply because I referred to 'the apparent
demise of the list at IENT'.  Note that word, 'apparent'.

FERCHRISSAKES, WHAT THE HELL WAS I - OR ANYBODY - SUPPOSED TO ASSUME WHEN
THERE WAS DEAD SILENCE, BOUNCES, AND NO FRIGGING INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT WAS
_REALLY_ GOING ON?

I'm not happy about this.  It makes me, Tod, and anyone who helped us try
to preserve the community look disloyal or otherwise bad.

I do this for fun - I have no 'vested interest' in seeing things happen one
way versus another; if it stops being fun, I'm outta here.  But I get
treated like a mushroom enough by my employer.  It's not a good feeling to
find that I've been treated like a mushroom - even if unintentionally - by
my _friends_.
--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
(ILink: news without the abuse. Ask via email.)
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Wed Apr  4 16:23:07 2001
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From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
To: tml@travellercentral.com, traveller@lists.ient.com
Subject: [TML] Addendum to 'Phoenix'
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 19:17:38 -0400
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Let me make it explicit: After reading more of the returned TML, I DO NOT
BLAME ROB FOR THE OUTAGE.  At _most_, I might have a grumble that he didn't
grab a copy of the listaddresses before it went down and send us all email
letting us know - but even that is forgiveable under what appears to be the
circumstances.

I am more distressed at having not heard anything than I am about the
outage - and still more distressed at the reaction to the efforts of Tod
and myself to keep the _community_ together, wherever it might find it
necessary/desirable to be.
--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
(ILink: news without the abuse. Ask via email.)
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> >So, no matter what the new home is, it's clear to me that it needs one.
>
>I suggest we keep Tod strongly in mind as a backup and see what happens.

I have officially handed the reigns to Tod.  The new list will be the 
official one and I will turn off the iEN one in two weeks.

Rob

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Wed Apr  4 16:40:20 2001
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Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 16:38:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
To: "'TML2'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Subject: [TML] eek!
In-Reply-To: <790253638A0FD411BC8100D0B73E4E6791D83B@VIR>
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On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Jones, Dean wrote:

> On Tuesday 27 March 2001 19:11, you wrote:
> > The tactile feedback could be supplied through a pair of gloves. The fiber
> > of the gloves could be controlled to supply resistance and even an
> > opposing
> > force. The gloves could extend up the arm as a sleeve if a larger range of
> > force was needed like working a ship's control levers. It could even form
> > complete suit for foot controls, etc. Materials with those properties are
> > not too far beyond current capabilities.
> 
> As a step further, professionals could get surgery to have a tactile implant
> placed in each hand.  Power for the tactile implant would come from the
> control that is being used broadcast on RF.  The implant would have several
> capabilities:  
> 
> 1. intercept the tactile nerves and retransmit modified signals to the
> brain.
> 
> 2. intercept the motor control nerves to the fingers and synthesize new 
> control signals that would cause the fingers to stop or slow down depending 
> upon the hardness of the material being simulated.   This would simulate 
> touching a hard or soft surface.
> 
> 3.  The chip has two different power sources:
>       a.  RF (just like ID chips)
>       b.  Production of ATP to power nano-generators, utilizing hosts blood
>             supply.
> 
> RF power must be provided by all holo-dynamic controlls.  This higher power 
> is needed to run the digital signal processors that synthesize the new nerve
> signals.  When RF power is not present, the power generated by ATP synthesis
> is sufficient to pass the normal nerve signals and keep the chip in standby 
> mode.
> 

And then what can you make someone do if you hack it?

bwhahahah.

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN

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Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 16:47:48 -0700
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From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: [TML] FW: Screen grabs RE: Starship bridge artwork....
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At 9:42 AM +0100 4/4/01, Jones, Dean wrote:
>On Tuesday 27 March 2001 19:11, you wrote:
>  > The tactile feedback could be supplied through a pair of gloves. The fiber
>  > of the gloves could be controlled to supply resistance and even an
>opposing
>  > force. The gloves could extend up the arm as a sleeve if a larger range of
>  > force was needed like working a ship's control levers. It could even form
>a
>  > complete suit for foot controls, etc. Materials with those properties are
>  > not too far beyond current capabilities.
>
>As a step further, professionals could get surgery to have a tactile implant
>
>placed in each hand.  Power for the tactile implant would come from the
>control that is being used broadcast on RF.  The implant would have several
>capabilities:
>
>1. intercept the tactile nerves and retransmit modified signals to the
>brain.
>
>2. intercept the motor control nerves to the fingers and synthesize new
>control signals that would cause the fingers to stop or slow down depending
>upon the hardness of the material being simulated.   This would simulate
>touching a hard or soft surface.
>
>3.  The chip has two different power sources:
>       a.  RF (just like ID chips)
>       b.  Production of ATP to power nano-generators, utilizing hosts blood


I think tactile feedback is important (it is a faster feedback loop). 
However, if you go this far, you might was well set up a neural 
interface with the brain but that gets a bit too "cyberpunkish" for 
Traveller.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
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Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 19:57:04 -0400
To: jzeitlin@cyburban.com
From: Rob Miracle <rmiracle@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Phoenix from the ashes
Cc: tml@travellercentral.com, traveller@lists.ient.com
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At 07:07 PM 4/4/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>FERCHRISSAKES, WHAT THE HELL WAS I - OR ANYBODY - SUPPOSED TO ASSUME WHEN
>THERE WAS DEAD SILENCE, BOUNCES, AND NO FRIGGING INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT WAS
>_REALLY_ GOING ON?
>
>I'm not happy about this.  It makes me, Tod, and anyone who helped us try
>to preserve the community look disloyal or otherwise bad.

Jeff, I was laid off from iEN on 12/15.  I've taken my part time photo 
business and turned it into a full time job.  I'm working easily 14 hours a 
day, 7 days a week.  Business is going well.

I have no hostilities towards iEN as my wife still works there.  But I'm 
out of the system loop now and I have ZERO say about what goes on.

iEN had to move their offices and data center (separate location) at the 
same time (leases expiring, etc.)  iEN had a priority to get their cash 
earning machines up first before non-essential hardware.

I knew the move was going on as it was effecting my wife.  I've been in and 
out of the offices numerous times so I knew the move was coming, I just 
didn't have a specific date.

The important thing is I'm too busy to have thought about notifying the TML 
until it was too late.  I figured they would only be down a day or so but 
it took longer.

I let the list down.  I take 100% of the responsiblity.

Should you be loyal to the iEN list?  I appreciate it, but I've handed the 
reigns to Tod and his list will become the official list as soon as 
everyone subscribes.  In two weeks, I'm going to have iEN turn off their 
list.   tml@travellercenteral.com is now the official list.

I encourage everyone to give Tod the same support you've given me.  Keep 
things civil and on topic the best you can.   I'm going to stay on the list 
for a while, at least until I find the time to inventory my books and offer 
them up for sale.  I don't have time to play any more and really haven't 
had for years.

Tod's the man now, so lets make the new TML as strong as the iEN one was 
and the previous hosts of it as well.

Rob



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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Wed Apr  4 17:20:10 2001
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Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 17:18:00 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Organization: College of Pharmacy
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Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

> I am more distressed at having not heard anything than I am about the
> outage - and still more distressed at the reaction to the efforts of Tod
> and myself to keep the _community_ together, wherever it might find it
> necessary/desirable to be.

As a systems admin who has worked places that had a sysadmin turnover
it's entirely possible for these things (and larger things, like the
CEO's vast cache of email and address books <shudder...thank Ghod for
backups!>) to get lost in the shuffle, especially when, as seems to be
the case, the entire company is undergoing a reorganization, move, etc.

Basically, someone oopsed it at ient.com, and forgot there _was_ a TML.

Not surprising since it was, after all, a charity, more or less, having
little to do with their main line of business, that Rob had wangled back
when he was working for them.

There has been a great deal of confusion caused by the sudden silence,
the creation of the new list followed by the near-simultaneous
reappearance of the old one. 

Coupled with the asynchronous nature of mailing list communications, and
5-day caching of sent mail by most servers, means there will be a lot of
weird messages bouncing around here for the next few days. Confusion
will reign, but remain calm, the crew actually is in control ;-)

As has been worked out by the _admins_ involved, Traveller Central is to
be the new home for the TML. This is good for the TML; it's found a new
home at a Traveller-oriented site, and as an active member as listmom.

(Why are they, regardless of gender, always called 'listmoms'?)

Loren has _every_ right to be gun shy about these sudden 'rumored
demise' kinda things, as that will dredge up Bad Times for him, but
while there was considerable communications floating about as alternates
to the list were explored, it certainly didn't reach everyone, or if it
did, reached us in incomplete and disogranized manner...such is the
nature of these kinds of ad hoc efforts. 

There actually was a very concerted effort by a number of list members
to regain and reorganize contact.

(This is in contrast to most lists I know of which would flounder for a
couple of weeks until we all realized that there _was_ something
wrong...)

ObTrav: The XBoats and any other starships have not arrived in system
for two weeks...what do you do?

For everyone else, well, we'll just put it down to jump emergence
disorientation... 

"Whoa! Where am I and what are these potted petunias doing here?" ;-)

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Wed Apr  4 17:23:36 2001
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Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 17:21:56 -0700
Subject: Re: [TML] Addendum to 'Phoenix'
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
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on 4/4/01 4:17 PM, Jeff Zeitlin at jzeitlin@cyburban.com wrote:

> Let me make it explicit: After reading more of the returned TML, I DO NOT
> BLAME ROB FOR THE OUTAGE.  At _most_, I might have a grumble that he didn't
> grab a copy of the listaddresses before it went down and send us all email
> letting us know - but even that is forgiveable under what appears to be the
> circumstances.
> 
> I am more distressed at having not heard anything than I am about the
> outage - and still more distressed at the reaction to the efforts of Tod
> and myself to keep the _community_ together, wherever it might find it
> necessary/desirable to be.
> --

I'll just make a few quick comments about the TML, and leave it at that.

Whatever the majority of subscribers want to do about the list and where it
lives is up to them.  As you know, Rob Miracle, who's done a stellar job,
has stepped down as listmom.

When I created TML2.0, I did it because ient was down for a week and I had
no idea when it would be back. Being in TML withdrawl, I had to get the list
going.

It just so happen that I am unix sysadmin, and have a Sun server on my desk
at home that is running another mailing list, so it was a small matter to
add the TML.

The advantage here is that I have full control over this system.  If we want
to change the way the list works, the software, etc., I can just do it.  I
don't have to worry about other customers or profits or anything like that.
The other function this server provides is to host several traveller
websites.  If there is a problem with the server, I don't get my mail.  My
websites go down. In other words, I'm motivated.

If someone else want to host the list, that's fine too,  Hey, I'm just
trying to help out here. Whatever the case, Ient will be gone in 2 weeks.
We need to decide what to do as a group.

Let me know.

Tod

--
"There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern.
They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
                                             -Daniel Webster
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org
http://www.grandsurvey.com
http://travellerguns.com

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Wed Apr  4 17:23:43 2001
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Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 19:22:03 -0500
To: tml@travellercentral.com
From: Victor Jason Raymond <vraymond@iastate.edu>
Subject: Re: [TML] Phoenix from the ashes
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ObTrav:  Think for a moment what most people in a Traveller universe would 
consider a disaster:  a major foul-up of the vast communications array they 
would take for granted as a part of their everyday life, like breathing 
air.  This creates all sort of interesting adventure ideas:

- a terrorist group significantly cripples a planetary commnet, just for 
its own sake.  People jam the remaining channels trying to find out what's 
going on.  The PCs have to deal with the fall-out in some way or another 
(repair the system; try to get to the starport from a vacation resort; 
protect an official who is dealing with the issue politically).
- the PC group has to set-up some components of a communications net 
(position geo-sync satellites, install hardware and software, in orbit and 
on the ground).  Then they discover the pre-installed "disruption 
circuitry"....
- A mercenary ticket in a low-level war situation:  go bust up a country's 
or planet's commnet.  Make 'em feel it when they can't do everything 
online.  Or take and hold the major routing facility for a portion of a 
planet, and use it for ELINT purposes.
- The planned switch from one major provide to another on the commnet 
actually hides something much more nefarious; PCs get to figure it 
out.  Was somebody murdered, and their communications being mimic'd by an 
expert system?  Or was there some sort of major credit transfer going 
on?  Or something else?

Just a thought or two....

Victor Raymond

At 07:07 PM 4/4/01 -0400, you wrote:
>Immediately after I get out the word that Tod Glenn has created a list at
>travellercentral.com, I find I'm once again receiving messages from the
>IENT list.  I'm very happy about this - IENT has served us well, and I
>believe in loyalty.
>
>BUT: I also believe in keeping a community together.  In the case of an
>e-community, that means that communication needs to be re-established when
>it breaks down.  This did not happen during the just-ended week-long outage
>of the TML.
>
>I've gotten mail from other sources that indicate that this was due to
>either a move or an upgrade at IENT.  There even seems to have been talk of
>there having been an announcement that it _would_ be going down having been
>sent out beforehand.
>
>The sources discussing the issue seem to have been forwarded to lists I
>subscribe to in response to my post announcing Tod's list.
>
>The last messages I got from the TML before it went down was Digest
>#1999.3830, on March 28, which said nothing about any impending downtime.
>Nor had anything been said prior to that.  The first digest I got today
>(4/4) was #1999.3831 - and there appears to have been some activity in
>between those two digests which was lost to me - and to how many other
>subscribers?
>
>It seems that Rob Miracle, who was the maintainer of the List, no longer
>works for IENT.  I don't seem to recall hearing this until shadowcat told
>me last night [Tues] in IRC when I went to get the word out there about
>Tod's list.
>
>Nobody that I am aware of wanted to abandon or bail from the IENT list -
>yet I find that that is the assumption that has been made in response to my
>posting announcing Tod's list - simply because I referred to 'the apparent
>demise of the list at IENT'.  Note that word, 'apparent'.
>
>FERCHRISSAKES, WHAT THE HELL WAS I - OR ANYBODY - SUPPOSED TO ASSUME WHEN
>THERE WAS DEAD SILENCE, BOUNCES, AND NO FRIGGING INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT WAS
>_REALLY_ GOING ON?
>
>I'm not happy about this.  It makes me, Tod, and anyone who helped us try
>to preserve the community look disloyal or otherwise bad.
>
>I do this for fun - I have no 'vested interest' in seeing things happen one
>way versus another; if it stops being fun, I'm outta here.  But I get
>treated like a mushroom enough by my employer.  It's not a good feeling to
>find that I've been treated like a mushroom - even if unintentionally - by
>my _friends_.
>--
>Jeff Zeitlin
>jzeitlin@cyburban.com
>(ILink: news without the abuse. Ask via email.)
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>at http://www.travellercentral.com.

Victor Raymond
vraymond@iastate.edu
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Wed Apr  4 17:26:33 2001
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Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 19:24:51 -0500
To: tml@travellercentral.com
From: Victor Jason Raymond <vraymond@iastate.edu>
Subject: [TML] John M. Ford update
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Just a note:

For people who might be interested, John M. Ford underwent a kidney 
transplant operation a few months ago.  I am happy to report that he's 
doing well, and seems to be recovering quite completely.  The medical bills 
are no small deal, however, so let me also express some thanks to those 
people who have donated to his medical trust fund (writers tend to have a 
difficult time getting regular insurance).

Victor Raymond


Victor Raymond
vraymond@iastate.edu
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From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] San Jose, CA, USA Travellers Diner Get-together
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At 12:27 PM 04/04/01 -0700, you wrote:
>Bill, Jesse et al.:
>  If you guys want to have a SJ Traveller party, let me know. I will make
sure 
>that the BBQ has plenty of gas and then we can haul out a couple hundred
of my 
>spaceship minatures and do fleet battles.

You might want to subscribe to the Traveller in SF list.  There are quite a
number of us in the Bay Area, and we have semi-regular get togethers.

And remember, two months to BayCon!
-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html

TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins
Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse
Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.

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From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
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At 03:12 PM 04/04/01 -0700, you wrote:
>There is indeed such a listing, but I don't remember who is maintaining
>it right now. The original maintainer is on a TOD in the Balkans right
>now...

I know John has some email access.. does anybody remember the addy?  I need
to get his snail mail address.. we have a morale-support plan in the works.
--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Wed Apr  4 17:38:14 2001
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Subject: Re: [TML] Old listserver back up
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on 4/4/01 1:45 PM, J-Man at jman31415@home.com wrote:

> I could host them, I have 420gigabytes of hard drive space and a 12x CD
> burner.
> 

You may have to, at least until I get the new drive in.  It looks like a
huge volume of files.  Right now I'm trying to get all the files, but
ftp.mpgn.com is sloooowwww.

I'll keep you posted

Tod
--
"There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern.
They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
                                             -Daniel Webster
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
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http://www.grandsurvey.com
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Subject: Re:  [TML] Phoenix from the ashes
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Rob did post several months ago to the effect that Ient had laid off some of 
its folks, him included, but that he would continue to mind the TML. Either 
in the same post or shortly thereafter, he posted that Ient was moving their 
offices "sometime soon" and to expect an outage. Ient gave him no specific 
date, though. All of this is IIRC, as my own life has been rather busy 
recently...

 At any rate, Rob has passed the baton to this new incarnation. As someone 
who has subscribed to all incarnations of the TML (including Not!the TML) 
from five different personal addresses, I have no preference save one: that 
the TML continue.

Jim Kundert
TML Old One, HIWG Sector Analyst (ret.), Zhodani Spy, Gearhead
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On 4 Apr 2001, at 17:21, Tod Glenn wrote:

> I'll just make a few quick comments about the TML, and leave it at that.
> 
> Whatever the majority of subscribers want to do about the list and where it
> lives is up to them.  As you know, Rob Miracle, who's done a stellar job, has
> stepped down as listmom.
> 
> When I created TML2.0, I did it because ient was down for a week and I had
> no idea when it would be back. Being in TML withdrawl, I had to get the list
> going.
> 
> It just so happen that I am unix sysadmin, and have a Sun server on my desk at
> home that is running another mailing list, so it was a small matter to add the
> TML.
> 
> The advantage here is that I have full control over this system.  If we want to
> change the way the list works, the software, etc., I can just do it.  I don't
> have to worry about other customers or profits or anything like that. The other
> function this server provides is to host several traveller websites.  If there
> is a problem with the server, I don't get my mail.  My websites go down. In
> other words, I'm motivated.
> 
> If someone else want to host the list, that's fine too,  Hey, I'm just
> trying to help out here. Whatever the case, Ient will be gone in 2 weeks.
> We need to decide what to do as a group.
> 
> Let me know.
> 
> Tod

If you're willing and all, I'm all for it. You obviously expect to be able to 
offer the service over the long haul, which is important (and cool).

--
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Wed Apr  4 17:59:53 2001
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Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 17:58:14 -0700
Subject: [TML] NorWesCon in Seattle
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
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Any list members going to Seattle this Easter weekend for NorWesCon.

I and most of my gaming group will be there. Trust me, you'll know us by
sight.

Tod
--
"There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern.
They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
                                             -Daniel Webster
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
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http://www.grandsurvey.com
http://travellerguns.com

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Wed Apr  4 18:21:18 2001
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From: "Paul Drye" <p_drye@hotmail.com>
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Keyboard Kills?
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 21:19:28 -0400
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>I know John has some email access.. does anybody remember the addy?

Answer to this coming to your private mail, Douglas.

Cheers,
Paul Drye


_________________________________________________________________________
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Wed Apr  4 19:04:31 2001
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Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 21:01:30 -0500
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From: Sinbad Sam <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: [TML] The TML 1.0 is Dead, Long Live TML 2.0!!!!
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A moment of silence for the passing of the TML 1.0........

Many thanks to the former list God/Guru/Despot/Tyrant Rob,<G>
your reign will be well remembered by those of that still have some 
functioning neural pathways(old time TMLers).<HG>

Long Live the TML 2.0

I hear by Christen the new List God/Guru/Tyrant/Despot "King/Lord Tod" as a 
very thinly veiled tongue in Cheek after a character in very silly cheessy 
film/video.<HG> How many here now to which movie/video to which I am 
referring too...?<G>

King/Lord Tod how many I serve you, grovelling at you most magnificent 
presence.<G>

Tod you have done a great job, well done.

Sinbad Sam

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Wed Apr  4 19:12:43 2001
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Todd,
	just wanted to say thanks for setting this list server up.

Eric


On Wednesday 04 April 2001 17:43, you wrote:

> > testing archiving changes
> ----
> When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
> ----
> Tod Glenn
> webmaster@travellercentral.com
> http://www.travellercentral.com
> http://www.travellerguns.com
> http://www.spinwardmarches.com
> http://www.solsec.org

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Wed Apr  4 19:23:37 2001
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>>I could host them, I have 420gigabytes of hard drive space and a 12x >>CD 
>>burner.
>
>You may have to, at least until I get the new drive in.  It looks like a
>huge volume of files.  Right now I'm trying to get all the files, but
>ftp.mpgn.com is sloooowwww.
>
>I'll keep you posted

I got the archive as well but I can't host anything due to my ISP and I will 
be away from this computer over easter starting this evening CET.

Patrik Holmstrm
_________________________________________________________________________
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Wed Apr  4 19:39:06 2001
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On Wednesday 04 April 2001 19:38, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> And then what can you make someone do if you hack it?
>
> bwhahahah.
>
> Kiri


That add's spice to the game... ;)

Eric
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Wed Apr  4 19:41:53 2001
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On Wednesday 04 April 2001 20:58, you wrote:
> Any list members going to Seattle this Easter weekend for NorWesCon.
>
> I and most of my gaming group will be there. Trust me, you'll know us by
> sight.
>
> Tod


Hey, some of us live in Florida and won't be able to make it... So do any of 
you have a digital camera to take pictures with and then post somewhere?

That would be cool.. Besides, I want to know what you mean by the knowing you 
by sight bit...
-- 
Eric Freitas
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Am I getting through?

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Wed Apr  4 19:52:45 2001
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In a message dated 4/4/01 7:29:20 PM, you wrote:

>Long Live the TML 2.0

Not to quibble, but this is actually TML 3.0

GC
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Wed Apr  4 19:53:11 2001
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On Wednesday 04 April 2001 20:24, you wrote:
> Just a note:
>
> For people who might be interested, John M. Ford underwent a kidney
> transplant operation a few months ago.  I am happy to report that he's
> doing well, and seems to be recovering quite completely.  The medical bills
> are no small deal, however, so let me also express some thanks to those
> people who have donated to his medical trust fund (writers tend to have a
> difficult time getting regular insurance).
>
> Victor Raymond


It's good to hear that he is getting better.  I don't believe that I have 
read any of his works.  I looked over his biography and didn't recognize 
anything.  I might look up some of it now though.

-- 
Eric Freitas
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Wed Apr  4 20:16:34 2001
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From: "Swordy" <swordworlder@earthlink.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] Old listserver back up
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 23:16:00 -0400
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The archive is only 168mb, so it won't be a big drain on a server. The
question is, who will finally write the server-side search app. so that we
can use it to its full potential? :>

_____________________________________

       http://www.downport.com
       The Traveller Web Portal
       webmaster@downport.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
>
> >>I could host them, I have 420gigabytes of hard drive space and
> a 12x >>CD
> >>burner.
> >
> >You may have to, at least until I get the new drive in.  It looks like a
> >huge volume of files.  Right now I'm trying to get all the files, but
> >ftp.mpgn.com is sloooowwww.
> >
> >I'll keep you posted
>
> I got the archive as well but I can't host anything due to my ISP
> and I will
> be away from this computer over easter starting this evening CET.

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Wed Apr  4 20:19:40 2001
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Oh joy. I love the cascading advertising footers. How many can you build up
on your replies? Maybe I can add in a few tag lines to help the snowball get
rolling...

This should get the digests and archives back up over 100k :-p

> -----Original Message-----
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In a message dated 4/4/01 8:16:49 PM, you wrote:

>Am I getting through?

yup!
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Wed Apr  4 20:54:18 2001
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Just checking to see if I subscribed alright.

Did the digest thing but I haven't gotten anything yet. Perhaps there just
haven't been enough e-mails yet.

daveshayne@msn.com

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Wed Apr  4 22:09:41 2001
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Subject: Re: [TML] NorWesCon in Seattle
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On Wednesday, April 04, 2001 5:58 PM
Tod Glenn said,

> Any list members going to Seattle this Easter weekend for NorWesCon.

I might be day tripping it on Saturday, if my paycheck arrives before then.

G.D.D.
ThingUnderTheStairs.
====================

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Wed Apr  4 22:32:29 2001
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Dear Folks -

Rob wrote:
>The list has been down for several days because iEN moved facilities.  I
>knew the move was coming, I however didn't know when.
>
>
>Its my intentions to let that become the new TML and Tod becomes the new
>List Mom.  I've had a great time doing this but changes happen that keep
me
>from going on.

First, may I propose a big vote of thanks to Rob Miracle for the excellent
job he did looking after the TML for so long. THANKS ROB!! <stands and
applauds!>

>I will let iEN know they can shut down their TML in about two weeks.  That
>should be sufficient time for everyone to migrate and for someone to pull
>the files off of ftp.mpgn.com.

Second, who is going to be the "someone"? Tod, are you in the process of
grabbing all the old TML digests and re-hosting them?

Third, (I'm not subbed yet) I'm assuming that the automated trailer has
been updated to reflect the new home? May I suggest that some (brief) info
be included so we know how to find the archived digests, and maybe a link
to the TML FAQ could be included.

Finally, can the keeper of the TML FAQ be contacted and asked to update
that document to reflect the new home?

Thanks for your time - look forward to seeing you all on the new list!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Wed Apr  4 23:08:39 2001
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Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 01:09:21 -0500
To: tml@travellercentral.com
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] John M. Ford update
In-Reply-To: <0104042251300A.00968@dt0f0n3f>
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At 10:51 PM 4/4/2001 -0400, Eric Freitas wrote:

>It's good to hear that he is getting better.  I don't believe that I have
>read any of his works.  I looked over his biography and didn't recognize
>anything.  I might look up some of it now though.

Well if you are an oldtimer to Traveller, you might have seen his stuff in 
the original JTAS (regular contributor).  I don't know if he wrote any 
adventures or anything else for Traveller.


Jimmy Simpson
      nimrodd@mail.com

"The avalanche has already started.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
                       -Kosh Naranek (Babylon 5)

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Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 23:41:04 -0700
Subject: [TML] Lost posts
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I made a couple of posts to this list....I think.

Wonder where they went??

Bill

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Kiri Aradia Morgan
> > Actually no....  When did it go down?  What happened?
> > 
> It's a sad thing when the TML list server goes down, and I don't.

Er, umm,... 

No I'd better not saying anything.

Frankie


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